Talk:Ivan Raidenovitch Raikov
"Raiden's bitch" What's the source for this? They actually use the "vi" sound for his name in Japanese. It might still be a joke Kojima made, but it's very hard to believe twithout a specific source... - Kuukai2 06:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC) This might help: (from Wikipedia) "The name "Raidenovitch" is also a reference to both the character of Raiden, and the suffix "-vitch" (meaning "son of") used in Russian patronymic names, and has a cruder meaning based on the standard substitution for v-sounds in Japanese." For the less enlightened, it's b-sounds....--Bpudes77 07:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC) :That's true for older words like baikingu ("viking" - which means "an all-you-can-eat buffet" in Japan), but like I said above Raidenovitch's name is spelled ライデノヴィッチ (raidenovitchi), without any "b" substitution. I can't find a legitimate-looking source for this. It sounds a lot like something someone who never actually played the game in Japanese made up. The pun could still be made, but without a source that sounds really suspect... - Kuukai2 04:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC) ::Surely it doesn't need a source, as that is the translation of it. I have never played the game in Japanese, true, and they may say "vi", but the point is that it CAN BE READ as a b. And your quote that it is clearly "raidenovitchi", is true, because the b is only in the katakana version. True, there is a certain element of reader imagination (it has to be read of "Raiden no bitch", which is of course, japanese for "Bitch of Thunderbolt"), but it's only a joke and still worth mentioning as trivia. Chaos91 06:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC) :::Surely it doesn't need a source, as that is the translation of it. ::::But it's not, there isn't even an n' before the no. If it actually was a translation, it might be notable, but look at how much any idiot can do if you give them this amount of leeway: :::::*''Mira'' (from Miraa Miller) is Japanese for "mummy," clearly foreshadowing his speaking-from-the-dead situation in Metal Gear Solid. :::::*''Jaaku'' (from Jakku Jack) is Japanese for "demonic," clearly foreshadowing his future appearance and "empty heart." :::::*''Edo'' (Ed) was a period of Japanese history when guns became more widely adopted. :::And your quote that it is clearly "raidenovitchi", is true, because the b is only in the katakana version. ::::...what? - Kuukai2 16:25, 23 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::There's not even an "n" before the "no" - that's because the "n" is in "Raide'n'". It's a joke, jokes are meant to be subtle like that lol. It's gonna look pretty stupid if his name was Raidennobitch. I agree with those examples you gave though, they ARE idiotic. But this isn't "mira" or "edo", this is "raidenovich". I don't wanna argue with you, I'm not one of those idiots who starts flaming people on edit pages. I just think it still warrants trivia. Can I make a comparison? In GTAIV, there is a statue called "The Statue of Happiness", as I'm sure you'll know if you've ever played it. Now, GTA is famous (or infamous) for its sexual references, and the reason for the choice of name on Rockstar's part was it sounds like "Statue of a Penis" when said quickly. It's almost the exact same joke and that's valid trivia. But like I said, I'm not going to argue, I just think that it should at least be mentioned. Chaos91 16:59, 23 January 2009 (UTC) Japanese Name Guide I was going to start adding this for the rest of the characters, so I'm wondering why it was removed. Generally it's pretty useful. We have them on the .hack//Wiki and we actually got editors from TokyoPop coming to us. Also, these pages already use it for non-Japanese names, if that's the issue: *Diane *Ellen Madnar *Jennifer *Johan Jacobsen *Marionette Owl *Slasher Hawk - Kuukai2 23:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC) :I thought you simply added it to prove a point over that argument you and that IP were having, so I removed it because I'm sick of the bickering. I do apologize. Personally, I feel like the whole "here's you say their name in Japanese" thing is incredibly pointless. --Fantomas 00:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC) ::Well, I did add it here in particular to help clear up the misunderstanding that started this in the first place, but I'd hardly call it "bickering" without some sort of exchange or argument... As far as I can tell, the anonymous user isn't even reading what I'm writing, just reverting whenever that section is changed... If anyone has an objection to removing that from the trivia, then they should explain their reasoning. It's not like I just went and changed it, I waited over a week to see if anyone opposed it first... ::Ok, so we should remove it from the above pages, then? Like I explained, the Japanese name is an extra bit of information that can be extremely useful for a small number of users, but yes, for most users it's relatively pointless. I think I could do it pretty quickly, though, I've done it for every applicable page on the .hack//Wiki... - Kuukai2 06:33, 2 August 2008 (UTC) :::Well, you can add them if you think they're necessary. That's fine. I will say however, that I don't think the "Raiden's bitch" thing comes from Japanese, but the fact that generally "vi" and "bi" are so similar to each other in any language. Obviously, there's no one else here who speaks Japanese. Removing it seemed a little OTT when you could have simply changed the "intended by Hideo Kojima" to "could be considered" or something similar. --Fantomas 10:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC) ::::So, "no" sounds like "'s" in English? I don't really follow. To me, without any place behind the scenes or in the canon, fanon, or non-canon, this whole thing seems a lot like saying "Rex could be considered a pun on 'wrecks' because it leaves behind a lot of them." - Kuukai2 18:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC) :::::So what's the policy for adding things like that? - Kuukai2 03:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC) ::::::I've gotten lost, what do you want to add? as long as it's nothing offensive and it's relevant add whatever you like. --Drawde83 05:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :::::::So.. then.. you agree with me? I'm for removing the "bitch" thing from the trivia section. If we don't remove it, then I would appreciate guidelines as to what is relevant... - Kuukai2 04:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC) ::::::::I don't think it's important enough to get worried about. There is obvously some doubt about it, so I think it's better to remove it and move onto other things--Drawde83 09:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC) Estimates on Raikov's canonical fate. Ok, We know that it's unknown if Raikov was killed or if he survived in terms of an official stance. However, there is evidence to suggest that Naked Snake merely knocked him out rather than killed him. The main reason is due to this: The reason he had to basically get Raikov out of the way was so he can masquerade as him, and in essence, infiltrate the West Wing of the Production assembly in Groznyj Grad. If he killed him, then it would ruin the infiltration attempt (because the blood from his murder wounds, even with something like a neck wound, would stain the outfit, and that's not getting into lung-shots or heart-shots, as the bullet would pass through him and in essence ruin the disguise, thus giving him away.). Secondly, Volgin mentioned something along the lines of Snake "hurting" Ivan, which implies that he wasn't really killed as much as just put out of commission for the time being to be impersonated. Well that's all I have to offer on the table. I don't care for the character one way or another, but I felt that it was worthy of mentioning, at least. Weedle McHairybug 21:32, December 5, 2009 (UTC) ::I agree, getting blood on the clothing is an excellent reason for him not having killed him. I guess he could have broken his neck, as is Solid Snake's preference, but Big Boss never really used that technique (though this is a move that I really miss from the first 2 MGS games, lol). Also, Volgin saying he only hurt Ivan is just mentioned so as not to contradict the player's actions, however he dispatched Raikov. --Bluerock 21:43, December 5, 2009 (UTC) :::Yeah, he doesn't. In fact, the only Neck-kill technique that he does use is the cutting of the Jugular Veins kind (I'm guessing it's due to CQC). :::The whole Volgin line may have also been a way to not contradict the player's actions, although they could have had two different variations of the line that in essence serves the same purpose (ie, if Snake killed Raikov, he's mention "But first, I'll make him pay for killing Ivan", but if Snake merely KOed him, he'd utter the aforementioned line of Snake hurting Ivan.). :::I might as well mention that in the article. It may not be officially confirmed, but it would at least be convenient. Weedle McHairybug 21:50, December 5, 2009 (UTC) ::::Actually, Snake can break Raikov's neck but the cutscene that follows clearly shows his neck intact. Raikov's head is not tilted. -- 16:11, December 10, 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, there's pretty much a few pieces of evidence of Raikov's survival. IE, the flaws about murdering Raikov that could endanger the infiltration mission (his uniform being ruined), the fact that the cutscene where Raikov is stuffed into a locker having no injuries whatsoever, especially ones that would be fatal, and the fact that that he can be recruited under normal circumstances (or as close to normal circumstances as one can get, due to the whole 24 hour time limit.). Other than the fact that you can see Raikov's ghost during the Sorrow Battle if you killed him instead, the only real hint towards his demise is if you try and leave Raikov's unconscious/dead body (depending on how you tried to get him out of the way) and Zero reminds you that you need to lock him up, as he refers to him as a "corpse." However, seeing how you only get that codec call if you try and leave before stuffing him in a locker, I kinda doubt that it really is canon. Weedle McHairybug 15:09, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :::::Oh yeah, I also forgot another piece of evidence. When you lock Raikov up in the locker, you don't even see anything related to wounds, never mind blood. I definitely doubt this had anything to do with graphic limitations, given the fact that this is the game that featured the HEAL gameplay element, and especially seeing how the very next cutscene featured one of the goriest sections of the game, if not the entire MGS series (Volgin beating up Snake.), which also wouldn't be possible if it had anything to do with graphic limitations. Weedle McHairybug 13:47, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::I believe that Raikov and Python surviving is canon but it's simply my opinion. -- 19:22, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Well, I can't really say it's an opinion as much as a hypothesis. I kinda assessed the scenarioes in MGS3 under a real-life expectation, and thus concluded that Raikov surviving is, of the two scenarioes, the only one that makes any sense in terms of logic. Personally, I don't care what his fate is. Sigh, I kinda wish that the creators actually tried to make it a bit clearer as to what his fate is, rather than leave it hanging. Yes, we have the Portable Ops mission, but people views on whether it is canon or not have been debated. Personally, I don't really see how his mission is really optional, seeing how his mission is literally the first one that is on the Western Wilderness. The EVA and Politician prisoner mission I can understand, but not Raikov's mission. Weedle McHairybug 19:33, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::EDIT: Although neither a confirmation towards his survival nor his death, I wanted to mention that an additional factor in the ambiguous nature was the fact that his fate was never given a Time Paradox if you killed him or even let him live. On the other hand, as stated before, that isn't really confirmation one way or another since in Metal Gear Solid, you could kill Johnny Sasaki without any consequence (IE, you don't get a mission failed version of the game over/Snake is Dead screen if Snake killed him, unlike if Snake killed Meryl or President Baker. Which is essentially what the time paradox is: A mission failed version of the game over/Snake is Dead screen.), and evidentally, Johnny dying was non-canon. Sorry, I had to bring it up it because no one else brought it up in this discussion. Weedle McHairybug 03:15, May 16, 2010 (UTC) Shouldn't we post more details about how Raikov is recruited into FOXHOUND? I'm asking because I feel that the reference to him, even with my addition, was a bit too shallow. Besides, nothing about the mission was given dialogue or even a video anywhere else, so I think it's best that we should mention something about it, maybe even have it as a script, seeing how there wasn't even a script excerpt of what happened on GameFAQS. Weedle McHairybug 04:19, December 10, 2009 (UTC) Curiosity I wonder why Vulcan Raven calls Ocelot "Colonel Ivan". could that had something to do with Raikov's promotion that Campbell mentioned on Portable Ops or something about Ocelot impersonating Ivan Raikov to not being discovered as his real name Adamska. : It has nothing to do with Raikov. Raven calls him General Ivan, Ivan being an ethnic slur towards a person of Russian descent, to remind Ocelot of his defeat at Snake's hands 07:43, May 19, 2011 (UTC) :Vulcan Raven actually called Ocelot "General Ivan." Plus, he was addressing him as such more as an insult to Ocelot's heritage, if anything ("Ivan," while a Russian name, is also used as a racial slur towards those of Russian descent/Russian origin, as it derives from an infamous Czar known as "Ivan the Terrible."). It was not a reference to Ivan Raidenovitch Raikov, especially seeing how the line was made before Raikov even existed in the creators minds. Weedle McHairybug 03:32, June 19, 2010 (UTC) Relationship with Raiden I know that Raikov is made for a joke of Raiden, but is it possible that Raikov is Raiden's father? Raikov was born around 1940 and Raiden sometimes during early 80s. Perhaps he joined FOXHOUND after San Hieronymo Takeover and become bi- sexual? But if he is Raiden's father, then we already know that he is dead (due to Solidus Snake saying he killed Raiden's parents). Or he can be Raiden's grandfather but that means Raikov had child before operation Snake Eater (if his child was born after operation Snake Eater, he/she was very young when Raiden was born). What do you guys think?Dr.Ed Argon 14:24, May 18, 2011 (UTC) Raikov's Camo The best of raikov is the camo because you can do all you want to the soldiers and they don't use the alarm... ¿Anyone know if are a glitch or a cheat to use Raikov camo all the game? is the best. Better than the stealth camo and will be funny to use it 12:22, July 11, 2012 (UTC) cancelled mission. is it possible that the documents that were to be stolen by the agent who was supposed to impersonate raikov was the legacy, but was scrapped in favor of using the boss?Malice419 (talk) 17:00, October 27, 2012 (UTC) :We don't really know. It might be, although it goes at odds due to Zero implying that he knows what the mission was, when he didn't seem to be aware about the Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater being created for the purpose of retrieving the Legacy, or that The Boss was faking defection. Wish that Kojima would have at least given an explanation in the commentary. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:02, October 27, 2012 (UTC) :zero never said he knew what documents were going to be stolen, only that they were secret, meaning he may not have been told everything.Malice419 (talk) 17:08, October 27, 2012 (UTC) ::I was referring more to the whole "certain circumstances" thing relating to its cancellation when I said that it was implied that Zero knew about what the documents were and what the mission was. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:11, October 27, 2012 (UTC) : Should we add this in? Hi. I stumbled upon something on livejournal apparently relating to Raikov's backstory. I'm reluctant to add it in because I suspect it's a fan-made backstory. However, on the other hand, the accompanying image does look legit, so I'm not so certain as to whether it is fanmade or not. Here's the link: http://thewolfscoat.livejournal.com/profile Just hope I haven't made a big mistake bringing it up. In case you guys are wondering how I stumbled upon it, it was completely by accident. I was searching for Soviet Uniforms to verify whether they had the same type of ribbon patterns used in our (American) Armed Forces' officers, and that image, and by extension, the webpage came up on the image search. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:03, March 9, 2013 (UTC) :It's completely fan made.--Soul reaper (talk) 02:39, March 9, 2013 (UTC) ::Thought so, though the image threw me off. That guy must really be good at rip-editing if he could pull off a realistic screenshot like that. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:45, March 9, 2013 (UTC) too much power abuse? naaah the reason russia has better nuclear missles than america is because i always show them how much fear you can get from a fist...my fist. 21:55, April 29, 2013 (UTC)Ivan Raidenovitch Raikov :Besides identifying yourself as him, what does this have anything to do with Raikov? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 21:58, April 29, 2013 (UTC) Hints to Raikov's service. Hi. I noticed that Raikov's uniform possessed at least nine military decoration ribbons. I'll photograph Raikov's uniform during a future playthrough that closes in on the ribbons and try to identify them and thus note them on the article. Those ribbons might hint at how long Raikov has served in GRU. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:42, August 4, 2013 (UTC) :Okay, I managed to take a picture of both Ocelot and Raikov's ribbons. I hope the HD collection has far better quality for taking pictures with the latter with the in-game camera, because this is the best I can do with Snake Eater 3D. : :Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:00, August 4, 2013 (UTC)